discussions of various subjects - emphasis on food and recipes, travel, art, gardening

=,=`==ivy==`=,=

forum guidelines . eyeglasses  disclaimer - read me . recipes from our kitchen . blog from our kitchen 

how to put a Webster's Online Dictionary search box on your site


etherwork.net
discussions of various subjects - emphasis on food and recipes, travel, art, gardening
 
Register Log in Log in to check your private messages FAQ Memberlist Search Usergroups etherwork.net Forum Index

Influenza Vaccine - Why Not?

 
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    etherwork.net Forum Index » anything and everything (within reason) - archive
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Mats
registered


Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 503
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Thu 09 Dec, 2004 12:26 pm    Post subject: Influenza Vaccine - Why Not? Reply with quote

I've just talked to four people who would rather face this year's influenza virus than have the vaccine; is this a common attitude? If so, why?


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
llizard (aka ejm)
Administrator


Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 548
Location: Canada

Slogan:

Come to Life. Come to Laziness.

PostPosted: Thu 09 Dec, 2004 1:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Influenza Vaccine - Why Not? Reply with quote

MEF wrote:
I've just talked to four people who would rather face this year's influenza virus than have the vaccine; is this a common attitude? If so, why?


The vaccination only guards against previous flus and does nothing towards protecting one from a new version. So I'm taking my chances too. Why bother having a sore arm for no reason? (Not to mention going to a place that is swarming with germy people....)

I think it's only necessary to get these kind of vaccinations if one is in the public sector: hospital worker, public transport worker who deals directly with the public; anyone who is working closely with already sick people. Also it is probably not a bad idea for those who are prone to getting sick.


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mats
registered


Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 503
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Thu 09 Dec, 2004 3:22 pm    Post subject: More than public sector workers Reply with quote

I would certainly agree that public sector workers have a resonsibility not spread viruses; I think this resonsibility rest with all of us. Even if we don't particularly care about our own suffering, we should do our best not spread infectious diseases,
As for the effectiveness of the vaccine:

How are the viruses for flu vaccine selected?

Each year, many laboratories throughout the world, including in the United States, collect flu viruses. Some of these flu viruses are sent to one of four World Health Organization (WHO) reference laboratories, one of which is at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in Atlanta, for detailed testing. These laboratories also test how well antibodies made to the current vaccine react to the circulating virus and new flu viruses. This information, along with information about flu activity, is summarized and presented to an advisory committee of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and at a WHO meeting. These meetings result in the selection of three viruses (two subtypes of influenza A viruses and one influenza B virus) to go into flu vaccines for the following fall and winter. Usually, one or two of the three virus strains in the vaccine are changed each year.


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Barbara
registered


Joined: 13 Oct 2004
Posts: 353
Location: Eastern Canada

Slogan:

Professional Loller

PostPosted: Fri 10 Dec, 2004 7:32 am    Post subject: Re: Influenza Vaccine - Why Not? Reply with quote

MEF wrote:
I've just talked to four people who would rather face this year's influenza virus than have the vaccine; is this a common attitude? If so, why?


I just got mine yesterday. stomp stomp stomp It only hurt for half a second, but maybe I'm lucky.

I talked to a few people yesterday at work, and all but one had reasons for not getting a flu shot. The reasons sound to me similar to the reasons people have/had for not wearing a seat belt. ("I once heard of someone who got killed because they were wearing a seat belt")

Here's a City of Toronto site Things people say about the flu shot


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
David
registered


Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 353
Location: England

Slogan:

Peripheral Visionary

PostPosted: Fri 10 Dec, 2004 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the UK, the vaccination free for all people aged 65 years and over and those with chronic respiratory problems, heart disease, renal disease, diabetes, immunocompromised people and those living in long stay residential accommodation and, of course frontline healthcare workers. i think that all the vaccinations were completed in late October.

The general advice to the rest of the population is that an occasional dose of flu gives the best long term protection but the vaccine is available to anyone who wants it.

I won't be getting vaccinated as I'm not in any of the vunerable groups and I'm not prone to catching anything.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MrsBrown
registered


Joined: 13 Oct 2004
Posts: 305
Location: Western Canada

Slogan:

Spice Cake--You're soaking in it!

PostPosted: Fri 10 Dec, 2004 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

David wrote:
In the UK, the vaccination free for all people aged 65 years and over and those with chronic respiratory problems, heart disease, renal disease, diabetes, immunocompromised people and those living in long stay residential accommodation and, of course frontline healthcare workers. i think that all the vaccinations were completed in late October.



This is the same where I live in Western Canada. Since I work with young children, I think I'm at risk for getting quite a bad dose of flu so I make sure I get a flu shot every year. I, of course, have to pay for it myself (about $12) because I'm not in the risk group. I had my shot about a month ago and it hurt for about a second. No sore arm later either.


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
llizard (aka ejm)
Administrator


Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 548
Location: Canada

Slogan:

Come to Life. Come to Laziness.

PostPosted: Fri 10 Dec, 2004 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not really afraid of a sore arm. I am just not in a high risk group, nor do I work with little children or the frail. I really do not think it is necessary for me to get the flu shot. The flu shot is not going to protect me from any new flu strain. I haven't had any sort of flu for years. Nor have I had a flu shot for about 10 years. I just don't think it's necessary.

This is something that the Ontario government jumped onto because of the SARS thing. (Now if there were a vaccine against SARS, West Nile or the poultry flu, I might just consider getting that!)

I'd like to see the government pay more attention to air quality. I'm pretty sure that more people in Ontario die from complications arising from breathing polluted air than from getting the flu.


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mats
registered


Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 503
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Fri 10 Dec, 2004 12:54 pm    Post subject: Influenza vs. SARS Reply with quote

Statistics Canada says the number of deaths from pneumonia and influenza has increased from approximately 4200 in 1979 to 8030 in 1997. This compares to the 2003 SARS outbreak in Canada which killed 38 people.
So, influenza just keeps on killing thousands annually while SARS, as it was a new disease, gets the headlines.


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
llizard (aka ejm)
Administrator


Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 548
Location: Canada

Slogan:

Come to Life. Come to Laziness.

PostPosted: Fri 10 Dec, 2004 1:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Influenza vs. SARS Reply with quote

MEF wrote:
Statistics Canada says the number of deaths from pneumonia and influenza has increased from approximately 4200 in 1979 to 8030 in 1997. This compares to the 2003 SARS outbreak in Canada which killed 38 people.


Of those numbers, how many of those people died from the flu (rather than pneumonia)? How many of those who died of the flu were already frail? And has the population of Canada also doubled since 1979 to 1997? If so, that means the number of flu/pneumonia deaths is exactly the same.

What are the statistics on how many have died of heart attacks? cancer?
AIDS? Car accidents?

And what is the percentage of people who died of SARS who contracted it? In my recollection, the people who died or were seriously ill with SARS (granted, not many people caught it - but that was because it was contained) were people of all ages who were normally in good health.




Last edited by llizard (aka ejm) on Fri 10 Dec, 2004 3:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DataRyder
registered


Joined: 14 Nov 2004
Posts: 92
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri 10 Dec, 2004 1:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Influenza Vaccine - Why Not? Reply with quote

MEF wrote:
I've just talked to four people who would rather face this year's influenza virus than have the vaccine; is this a common attitude? If so, why?


This is a topic that *really* gets me ranting. You'll see.... happy

I grew up in Winnipeg in the 1950's. On my street alone, there were two children that I knew who had polio. This was in a pool of about 10 or 15 of us. Now that's a threat. Vaccines have their place. Certainly.

The flu vaccine band wagon seems to be a fairly recent development. Certainly 10 years ago few of us were rushing across borders in a panic looking for flu vaccines.

It's my feeling that a lot of people who get sick with a good honest cold call it "the flu". It's more convenient and elicits more sympathy. Is someone really going to phone up an employer and say, "I'm sorry. I can't come in today. I feel rather grumpy and my nose is running." No. It's always, "the flu".

But what about real cases of the flu? They must exist. But, I have to say that in my 52 years I've never known anyone who died of the flu. Let me take that further... I've never know anyone who was so sick that they *almost* died of the flu. Further still... I've never known anyone who was so sick with the flu that the words 'hospital care' came up in a conversation with their doctor.

Certainly this does not diminish pandemics like the Spanish strain that killed millions. But what's all this fear about? As already pointed out, we live with many more real threats everyday. Each year several thousands of people die from the air we breath in Toronto. Countless others become chronically ill and will die. Give me a vaccine that'll ensure I can breath clean air. Give me a vaccine to protect me from prostate cancer, from hardening of the arteries, stroke or even from the common cold (although, on second thought I'm not sure I'd rush out for this last one either.) I wonder if I've ever really had an honest case of the flu?

I heard an interview someone read over the radio the other day. Even W.H.O. officials state that flu vaccines normally take about 4 months to develop. Current vaccines would likely provide little relief in the event of a new strain of the flu. Should a flu virus like avian jump species? We'd begin to drop like flies flu vaccine or no.

How's that for a rant? Not bad for my first try, eh?

BTW, Another rant can be found at;
http://www.mercola.com/2004/oct/30/flu_deaths.htm

In the above there are plenty of other interesting links. This one has a serious look around the CDC (Centre for Disease Control) website and breaks down some of the facts;
http://www.lewrockwell.com/keller/keller20.html

Great idea for a discussion, MEF.

DataRyder




Last edited by DataRyder on Fri 10 Dec, 2004 8:03 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
David
registered


Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 353
Location: England

Slogan:

Peripheral Visionary

PostPosted: Fri 10 Dec, 2004 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I ever went to hospital I'd be more worried about contracting an antibiotic-resistant bacterial infection. A quick Google shows that thisis happening all over the world. Apparently bacteria killed 600 in hospitals in Montreal alone in the 12 months up to April 2004. http://health.news.designerz.com/bacteria-blamed-for-600-deaths-in-canada-hospitals.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CAM
registered


Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 494
Location: Canada

Slogan:

Can't Do It In Real Life? Do It On Llizard's Forum

PostPosted: Sat 11 Dec, 2004 4:58 am    Post subject: Re: Influenza Vaccine - Why Not? Reply with quote

DataRyder wrote:
MEF wrote:
I've just talked to four people who would rather face this year's influenza virus than have the vaccine; is this a common attitude? If so, why?


This is a topic that *really* gets me ranting. You'll see.... :)DataRyder


You go, DataRyder!


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.#phpforum   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    etherwork.net Forum Index » anything and everything (within reason) - archive All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001- 2004, 2006 phpBB Group
Theme created by phpBBStyles.com | Themes Database

-,-`--ivy--`-,------

                      *
                     *
                    []
                    ||
      *          *  ||*
    *          *  *|  |
        *__    _*_ |__|
        \*/    \*/ | *|
ejm      Y      Y  |__|   =(}
        _|_    _|_


Webster's Online Dictionary
with Multilingual Thesaurus Translation

English Non-English

HTML coding for the Online Dictionary search box